Fredette shorty kicker

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canyncarvr
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Fredette shorty kicker

Post by canyncarvr »

I bought a new kicker..and a new boss to go with it.

Looking at how the two parts fit..both being brand new..it seemed to me they did not fit 'fer squat. The contact 'patch' with the kicker in the 'kick it' position to the new knuckle is the size of the point of a sharp pencil.

:shock:

The kicker is a tad forward when open, but not by much.

I called FRP..wondering if maybe I had a wonky lever.

Nope.

FRP said they make them that way on purpose, the reason being that a lot of riders get the new kicker, but don't get a new boss, so the lever is designed to be a 50/50 deal: It works 'ok' on a new boss, and works 'ok' on an old boss.

I voiced my point of view about it. FRP should say, 'Hey! No new boss, no warranty/fit/use expressed or implied...so BUY the matching part!'

The response was...'You must be an older guy.'

:neutral:


'So, you're saying young riders are stupid?'

'No. You just can't tell'm anything.'


Stupid is as stupid does.

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Post by fuzzy »

:supz:
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Post by skipro3 »

So do you like it or not? For an old geezer you sure don't get to the point.

So fit it to the old boss and see how that works. Then tell us how you don't like that either.

BTW, all you kids, GET OFF THE LAWN!!
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Post by canyncarvr »

>|<>QBB<
skipro3 wrote:So do you like it or not? For an old geezer you sure don't get to the point.

So fit it to the old boss and see how that works. Then tell us how you don't like that either.

BTW, all you kids, GET OFF THE LAWN!!
Well, geezer...it's not a matter of like it or not. It's a matter of it being what it is. I'd prefer it fit like it's supposed to...NOT fit like it HAS to because some other schmuck won't buy the parts he's s'posed to.

The point of the post is duo-fold..and I'm not talkin' underwear.

1. An advisement of the poor fit, and 2. BUY A BOSS WHEN YOU BUY THE KICKER!

Also, geezer, putting it on the old boss is not an option. The current boss has been machined to match the bushed FRP kicker I have on now.

I took the new FRP kicker to the machine shop. It will be bored, bushed, and pinned to fit the NEW knuckle.


I'm on track for a $200 kicker by the time I get done with it.


Oh..the pin, as with my current FRP kicker, is to keep the bushing from moving, to ensure alignment with the detent ball.


The reason for replacement: Unintended consequences.

As noted, my current setup has already seen the machine shop. The boss was slightly turned to make it more round, the kicker was sleeved and pinned. That was done to improve the existing fit, to resolve a progressing sloppiness resulting from wear. BUT...that operation made for a poor fit of the washer/e-clip onto the boss. There was no washer/clip..SAE or metric.. that fit close enough to work well. The washer would exert pressure on the outside edge of the clip, eventually deforming the clip the the extent it would come off the boss. The deforming clip caused further deformation to the clip slot on the boss...and downward on the ever-faster progressing downward spiral of 'bad' the assembly went.

I tried making a washer to fit. I don't have the tools to make an inside hole to an exact measurement...it didn't work.


And, geezer, 'round here, it's 'GET OFF THE GRASS!'

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Post by saddletramp »

Wow, you sure pay attention to detail. I've had mine on since June, ( yes I bought all new parts) I thought the fit was a huge improvement over the floppy stock kicker I did not give it a second thought. Can't you run a bolt in the threaded hole to tighten things up after it's broke in?
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Post by canyncarvr »

Re: 'Can't you run a bolt in the threaded hole to tighten things up after it's broke in?'

You bet!! Choose where you want the lever to sit...bolt it down!! Finish it off with some JB-Weld just for good measure.

It positioned so it's kickable will SURELY teach you to NEVER take your foot off the peg!!

...not your right foot, anyway.

:lol:

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Post by KarlP »

Wasn't there a KX kicker from the mid '90's that went right on there?

I put a brand new FRP kicker and boss on my hybrid when I finished it. It has about two years on it and is getting really wonky. I hesitate to take it off and try to improve it, it is so worn out.

When I have to do it again I think I'll do a new boss and lever and make a cap to replace the circlip. Drill and tap into the boss to hold the cap on like most kick levers.

Or better yet I learn that a kickstart lever from a '94 KX125 fits the kick start shaft and quit screwing around with home made parts.
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Post by canyncarvr »

The '94 KX125 kicker (per online fiche) does not come as a separate piece. It is an assembly that includes the whole mess..boss, lever, detent spring/ball, etc.

No need for a cap on that design..it is a blind hole in the lever that accepts the boss, the kicker lever is held on by a screw that fits kind'a like the KDX shift lever bolt.

No o-rings on the KX part, either..which, I think is a major part of the problem in the first place. You cannot have a 'snug' fit between the two parts if you're going to make o-rings fit. So..you increase the clearance on the puny pieces, leverage through the 8-9" lever hundreds of pounds of force..and think everything is going to work out well?

Uh...no.


The entire KX assembly is $83 (RonAyers). FRPs kicker by itself (no boss or associated hardware) is $89.95!

:hmm:

Truth be told...I forgot about the '94 KX kicker fitting the KDX. Besides the whole KX shebang costing well under 1/2 the FRP piece..considering that the KX kicker I'll bet will FIT to the knuckle (FRP don't 'fer diddle)..the KX lever is CLOSED on top and NOT held with a clip...the '94 would indeed be the obviously correct choice.

..even if it is cast potmetal..which I'm NOT sure it is. The KX part I mean.


Who out there in KDX-land has one'a these '94 KX kickers? IS it the same crap metal the KDX kicker is? My OEM KDX kicker bent like an overcooked noodle.


Where were 'ya when I needed you, Mr. KarlP?


I sidetracked myself. I was intent on IMPROVING/FIXING the FRP kicker (and spending another $80-90 in machine-shop time) with bushings and such.

I screwed up. I apologize to myself.


Well...I'm iffy on the metal in that KX kicker. What is it?

Somebody out there knows..................let's share!! :wink:

**edit**
Get this! What I took for a bushing/washer on the boss below the KX lever is a good 'ol 92049- oil seal!


I'm gonna' have to do more than just apologize. I owe a couple of beers 'fer sure!

Anyone want a bushed FRP/brandy-new boss kicker? Only $250! :wink:

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Post by Indawoods »

Some of us don't wear size 7 boots... that short throw will hurt our podia.
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Post by canyncarvr »

>|<>QBB<
Indawoods wrote:Some of us don't wear size 7 boots... that short throw will hurt our podia.
I honestly don't know what that is and couldn't find a definition for it, either. Still...I don't think I've ever hurt mine.

I don't wear size 7 boots neither, so I guess I'm good!

:wink:

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Post by Indawoods »

It's latin for foot.

The platform is bent back on mine and is very hard to kick when it gets wet out.... I need to either bend it back or find a new kicker myself.

I just don't want to slam the top of my foot on the peg.
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Post by canyncarvr »

>|<>QBB<
Indawoods wrote:It's latin for foot.
I prolly should'a known that.......


>|<>QBB<
Indawoods wrote: The platform is bent back on mine and is very hard to kick when it gets wet out.... I need to either bend it back or find a new kicker myself.

I just don't want to slam the top of my foot on the peg.
The short lever is SHORTER than that.

It's the bottom of your foot that hits the peg with the short kicker. The OEM kicker puts your foot beneath the peg, the shorty puts it on top. IF you don't take a bit of care, IF you happen to have some nastily sharp foot pegs, you will tear up the sole of your boot.

Which is why I've had to resole my Tech-8s several times. I sent them to Alpinestar in the last attempt to save them, having tried a few local cobblers that couldn't get the job done. Alpinestar did a fine job putting the last soles on and I've learned to hold my foot just a bit different most of the time.



Just picked up my new lever from the machine shop. It's beautiful...for now, anyway! The machinist chatted for awhile about different methods for securing the assembly. He had some thrust bearing faces he was rooting through, thinking he had a 5/8" I could use..but he found only 3/4".

The OEM boss is 16mm, or .630". 5/8s being .625"..the thrust face being hardened steel, the old boss having been turned down a tad, that would work well if the clip groove on the boss was opened up to take an e-clip instead of the OEM retaining ring.



Or...just by the '94 KX part!



I just like fixin' stuff.

Kind'a like taking my coffee grinder apart to find a failed solder joint on the motor-control board. :wink: Hidden snaps and threaded assemblies, weirdest fasteners I've never seen holding the thing together...some kind of domed top with five sloped slots..stainless steel that needle-nosed pliers didn't want to grab..

But, it's fixed, too. Complete with modified screws to make access easier next time.

Yeah...I like fixin' stuff....

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Post by KarlP »

Now hold on!

I did NOT say the '94 KX 125 kicker would fit.
Wasn't there a KX kicker from the mid '90's that went right on there?
Or better yet I learn that a kickstart lever from a '94 KX125 fits the kick start shaft and quit screwing around with home made parts.
Obviously I should have put 'for example' after ''94 kx125' or something else to make it clear that I don't KNOW what other kicker will fit the KDX but I heard somewhere, sometime that some kicker from the mid '90's on a KX maybe fits the KDX....

Crap. I hate being the one to spread disinformation.

I KNOW a '95 KX125 kicker won't work. I've got one on our KX100 and that kick shaft is smaller than the KDX's

I could have sworn I read somewhere that there IS a KX lever that works.

I bought the POS FRP lever 'cause surely a company owned by a multi-time ISDT winner and longtime KDX fan would be way better than a mass produced OEM lever.

This is what we need to know
Who out there in KDX-land has one'a these '94 KX kickers? IS it the same crap metal the KDX kicker is? My OEM KDX kicker bent like an overcooked noodle.
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Post by saddletramp »

You think the stocker is better? :blink:
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Post by canyncarvr »

Sorry...summore...I took 'I learn' as being part of an evolving process..present tense..done...something you had discovered.

Backup then...

There is a kicker that fits the KDX knuckle...it's the '89 KX125 lever.

That info is on CDave's site..'Building a Hybrid Alloy Kick-Starter' It's under 'Tech Tips'.

The '89 KX kicker is of the same basic design as the KDX..uses a washer/snap ring to keep it on the KDX knuckle.



Poop. I thought something new was figured out. So much for that.


Karl: No spreading from you. It was my error...all mine...I owe yet another apology.

Keep this up, and today's going to set a record for those...... :neutral:


No. I do not think the stocker is better. I prefer the short lever. It's easier to reach, it's not nearly as heavy (and so doesn't flop around so much) and will not bend to a rearward pointing direction as does the OEM lever.

The short lever will eventually move past being 'square' to the bike as it and the knuckle deform themselves where they touch. That's just the way it is.

My bike has always been hard to start after it's been upside down. Probably the best thing I can do to keep my kicker lever/knuckle in good working order is to not get the bike upside down so often.

Image

Pic ® Wibby

I'll work on that................. :wink:

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Post by KarlP »

Yeah, I just found that concerning the '89 KX lever. That is what I was thinking of. Unfortunately, the knuckle needs to come from a KDX. It seems unlikely that only a KDX would use that size splined shaft; there ought to be some other options out there.

Seems I'd have to get a new knuckle for a KDX and the lever of choice.

I know what I'll get with the FRP lever. I have no idea if the '89 KX125 lever is an improvement over the FRP lever.

Off to the Yamaha shop?
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Post by KarlP »

Look what else I found. I don't know if it is true, but I'm going to try to find out.
ok any 98 to 02 kx lower knuckle will work, if you have a hybrid in a kx frame before 03 you can either use the 250 kx top lever for more length or the kx 125 lever 96 to 06 for the shorter version, 03 and later frames you will be suited for the 02 and back lower knuckle and the 03 and newer top half do to its shape it fits the frame better, however on either the nut which holds the lever on needs to be drilled slightly to countersink it as the 250 lower knuckle is just a shade narrower.
I'm going to see if I can borrow a 98 to 02 kx kick start lever from my local shop. I have a used KDX knuckle I can bring with me to see if it first passes that hurdle.
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Post by canyncarvr »

Could it be so simple??

A reverse look-up for the KDX knuckle (13061-1487) got NO match for anything other than a KDX.

So, no. It's not that simple.

BTW and all that........

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Post by KarlP »

A reverse look-up for the KDX knuckle (13061-1487) got NO match for anything other than a KDX.
That is good to know.

I'm hoping to find that a knuckle and lever from some other model will work. It seems the current options of OEM lever assembly, OEM knuckle and KX lever, and OEM knuckle and FRP lever aren't the best.
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Post by canyncarvr »

A Banshee assembly (knuckle, lever and associated hardware) is only $77 from RonAyers.


But...I suppose you want it to FIT, too?



sheesh...there's some folks 'ya just can't please. :neutral:

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