Stalling on idle
- Varmint
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Stalling on idle
Stats first:
2003 KDX200
Stock carb.
Needle: R1174, 3rd position
Main: 160
Pilot: 48
Plug: BR8ES, Gapped between 0.7 and 0.8mm
Vforce 3 Reeds
Fresh Gas: 40:1
Elevation: 600
Current Temp: 60
Back story:
I rode this bike for an hour in some sand pits, a lot of riding with throttle cranked, winding through gears. I never really just putted and the bike ran great.
2nd ride, I take the bike out to some woods following a quad. Slow lugging up and down hills. Bike stalled down hill. I thought it was out of gas, switched to reserve, rode some more. Then got some bog, like I was running out of gas. Took off the plug and it was pretty black and wet. Wiped it off and restarted the bike.
Brought it home and just tried putting around the yard. Choppy performance at first 1/8 of throttle when in first gear, just putting around. After 1/8 throttle bike wakes up and is great through the gears. I noticed the Air Screw was set at 3/4 out so I began doing some jetting research.
Here's what I did before doing any changes.
- New plug gapped between 0.7mm and 0.8.
- Fresh fuel mixed at 40:1
- Cleaned and reoiled air filter.
- Removed carb. disassembled, cleaned and replaced.
Issue:
I adjusted the AS and have gotten it pretty close. Definately a little better throttle response when blipping (RB term) it. In first it's stable and putts, 2nd and third too; a blip is responsive, no bog or stall. I thought I nailed it.
Then I let it sit there at ilde. Sounds nice, good rhythm, then at about 20-30 seconds of idle, irregular rhythm, quick rev up (1/2 second), and the bike stalls. The rev up is not me turning the throttle and its not fast just sounds like the bike's last ditch effort to stay started. I've played with the AS from 3/4 out to 2 out and keep getting the same results.
After this it takes a good 10-15 kicks to start. Sometimes I'll just leave it and come back and it starts in 5 or so. After the stall, the plug is a little wet, not saturated.
This is my first two stroke so I'm not an expert by any means.
Any ideas on where to start would be appreciated. The season starts in less than two weeks!
Be gentle with my jetting cherry! Well at least I hope it's jetting.
2003 KDX200
Stock carb.
Needle: R1174, 3rd position
Main: 160
Pilot: 48
Plug: BR8ES, Gapped between 0.7 and 0.8mm
Vforce 3 Reeds
Fresh Gas: 40:1
Elevation: 600
Current Temp: 60
Back story:
I rode this bike for an hour in some sand pits, a lot of riding with throttle cranked, winding through gears. I never really just putted and the bike ran great.
2nd ride, I take the bike out to some woods following a quad. Slow lugging up and down hills. Bike stalled down hill. I thought it was out of gas, switched to reserve, rode some more. Then got some bog, like I was running out of gas. Took off the plug and it was pretty black and wet. Wiped it off and restarted the bike.
Brought it home and just tried putting around the yard. Choppy performance at first 1/8 of throttle when in first gear, just putting around. After 1/8 throttle bike wakes up and is great through the gears. I noticed the Air Screw was set at 3/4 out so I began doing some jetting research.
Here's what I did before doing any changes.
- New plug gapped between 0.7mm and 0.8.
- Fresh fuel mixed at 40:1
- Cleaned and reoiled air filter.
- Removed carb. disassembled, cleaned and replaced.
Issue:
I adjusted the AS and have gotten it pretty close. Definately a little better throttle response when blipping (RB term) it. In first it's stable and putts, 2nd and third too; a blip is responsive, no bog or stall. I thought I nailed it.
Then I let it sit there at ilde. Sounds nice, good rhythm, then at about 20-30 seconds of idle, irregular rhythm, quick rev up (1/2 second), and the bike stalls. The rev up is not me turning the throttle and its not fast just sounds like the bike's last ditch effort to stay started. I've played with the AS from 3/4 out to 2 out and keep getting the same results.
After this it takes a good 10-15 kicks to start. Sometimes I'll just leave it and come back and it starts in 5 or so. After the stall, the plug is a little wet, not saturated.
This is my first two stroke so I'm not an expert by any means.
Any ideas on where to start would be appreciated. The season starts in less than two weeks!
Be gentle with my jetting cherry! Well at least I hope it's jetting.
Last edited by Varmint on 08:33 am Apr 30 2009, edited 1 time in total.
- Indawoods
- Creator and Founder
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It sounds like a fuel delivery issue. Jets are clogged, pinched fuel line, petcock is clogged, vent line clogged.
Any rev up is fuel starvation.
Any rev up is fuel starvation.
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- Varmint
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- Indawoods
- Creator and Founder
- Posts: 9951
- Joined: 09:59 am Jun 12 2003
- Country:
- Location: Midwest
I run a guitar string through mine.... you'd be suprised some of the junk that I can get out of them....
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- Varmint
- KDXRider.net
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- Varmint
- KDXRider.net
- Posts: 823
- Joined: 01:33 pm Oct 27 2008
- Country:
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- Contact:
- Indawoods
- Creator and Founder
- Posts: 9951
- Joined: 09:59 am Jun 12 2003
- Country:
- Location: Midwest
A sticking slide or throttle cable at the very last mm of full close can cause the dying problem. I had this issue on my last ride last year...
I thought I had the idle set but what would happen is it would stick at the right position and after a while it would drop to where the idle screw was set and die. Took a while to figure that one out.
I am betting on the jets though....
I thought I had the idle set but what would happen is it would stick at the right position and after a while it would drop to where the idle screw was set and die. Took a while to figure that one out.
I am betting on the jets though....
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- Indawoods
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- Posts: 9951
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- Location: Midwest
What ever string fits... I always have snips of the whole set so I just use whatever fits best... Never a wound string though.
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- Indawoods
- Creator and Founder
- Posts: 9951
- Joined: 09:59 am Jun 12 2003
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- Location: Midwest
Try a different jet if you have any....
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- jaydollar
- Supporting Member III
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- Indawoods
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Yeah... those usually don't jump out of adjustment but if it is out of wack it could definately cause a fuel starvation problem.
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- Varmint
- KDXRider.net
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1. OK, dropped the bowl and notice there was only enough fuel to fill the bolt hole where the main sits. Is this normal? I was expecting to see at least half a bowl of fuel. I did not run it with petcock on off the last time I ran it.
2. Removed the pilot, ran a guitar string through. Def made the hole a little bigger, nice! Put that sucker back in.
3. Let's check the main. Run the wire through it, clean it up. Reinstall, over tighten and snap it. Beautiful.
My day just got better.
What are my options? Learning the hard way here.
2. Removed the pilot, ran a guitar string through. Def made the hole a little bigger, nice! Put that sucker back in.
3. Let's check the main. Run the wire through it, clean it up. Reinstall, over tighten and snap it. Beautiful.
My day just got better.
What are my options? Learning the hard way here.
- Indawoods
- Creator and Founder
- Posts: 9951
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Options to get the brass threads out from the snapped main?
A very small EZ-out...
Check your float height too... that doesn't sound normal....
A very small EZ-out...
Check your float height too... that doesn't sound normal....
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- Varmint
- KDXRider.net
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- Indawoods
- Creator and Founder
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Yeah... I use a little ruler I have ... it's real easy to measure if you turn the carb sideways and get the float so it just seats the needle valve and measure from the carb body....
Easier to show than to explain...
Easier to show than to explain...
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- Varmint
- KDXRider.net
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No, I get it. I'm referring to the service manual and I understand. I need a small metric ruler. 16mm +-2 right?
BTW, I went to the garage and took a look at the main, and I place a pointed tool I have in there and started turning and it came out! I knew I didn't over tighten it, rather I tweaked it anglewise. Ok, that's resolved.
So thinking about this I think both you (Inda) and Jaydollar are right; it's a fuel starvation problem based on the float level.
The manual says I shoudl bend the tang. The tang they are talking about is the little piece the float valve hangs from right?
For my knowledge: How much fuel should I expect in the bowl? Is the pilot ever submerged? There was no way enough gas in the bowl for the pilot to reach; there was barely enough for the main to grab some.
BTW, I went to the garage and took a look at the main, and I place a pointed tool I have in there and started turning and it came out! I knew I didn't over tighten it, rather I tweaked it anglewise. Ok, that's resolved.
So thinking about this I think both you (Inda) and Jaydollar are right; it's a fuel starvation problem based on the float level.
The manual says I shoudl bend the tang. The tang they are talking about is the little piece the float valve hangs from right?
For my knowledge: How much fuel should I expect in the bowl? Is the pilot ever submerged? There was no way enough gas in the bowl for the pilot to reach; there was barely enough for the main to grab some.
- Indawoods
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Yep.. a mil or 2 under helps stop the peeing you get... Mine is set at 17mm.....
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- Indawoods
- Creator and Founder
- Posts: 9951
- Joined: 09:59 am Jun 12 2003
- Country:
- Location: Midwest
Fixed???
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
- Varmint
- KDXRider.net
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- Joined: 01:33 pm Oct 27 2008
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This procedure isn't that easy. It's hard to trust the measurement when the float is so far away from the ruler. I'm not confident on just "eyeing" it. Plus, the floats aren't square and its hard to judge the height from the carb body. Any tips?Indawoods wrote:Yeah... I use a little ruler I have ... it's real easy to measure if you turn the carb sideways and get the float so it just seats the needle valve and measure from the carb body....
Easier to show than to explain...
P.S.
Waiting on new main and pilot to be delivered.
- Indawoods
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The bottom of the float is square to the body of the carb when I measure.
Can you take a pic of what you are talking about?
Can you take a pic of what you are talking about?
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
****'95 KDX 200/****
"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "