Finally Done with My Frok Conversion!

jafo · Post by **jafo** » 04:54 pm Jun 15 2005

Well I'm finally done with my fork conversion. I heres a run down of what it took for me to get it done. One set of '97 KX 250 forks, a '96 I think it was front KX 125 wheel. A new set of bushings for the rim, a new axle and nut, an Emig's Racing top clamp with bar mounts and a stock lower KX 250 clamp off a '97 bike.

As far as stems go, the diameter on my stem bottom was the same as for the lower KX clamp hole. It was just a matter of swaping stems. The upper clamp was a different story. The stock KX 250 clamp I had would not fit the top of the KDX stem. The KX clamp stem hole was much larger than my KDX stem. He told me I could get a bushing made for it but offered me his top clamp instead. It fit perfect. So I went that route. I was planning on having his lower clamp also but it was out of my pricerange for now. I'll upgrade later. He also shimmed up my stem with two thick washers. He said it needed that after measuring the stem. It fits fine but eliminated my stops on the lower clamps from hitting the stop on the neck. I don't think it matters much because it would'nt make it to the stop anyways because the new forks are much bigger to where my headlight holder mounts hit the front frame behind the neck. I'm going to get some rubber pieces and glue them to the frame for clearence issues. Other than that, it's setup and ready for a test ride. I'd have to say that the front end feels more ridged and stiffer than before. I rode around the front yard alittle and the whole bike seems more stiff. The forks though are alittle stiffer also but I can adjust that out. I'm happy with it so far, but need to do some real riding before making up my mind though.

I have planty of pics in my gallery if you want to check them out. I took pics of the clamps off the bike with the both top clamps to let you see the difference. Also have pics of the clearence between my frame and the back of the forks. Check'm out. Give me some feedback!

Jon.

Post by **Indawoods** » 07:07 pm Jun 15 2005

Lookin' good Jafo!
Love the work mat!

Take those puppies for a flight and give us a report!

jafo · Post by **jafo** » 08:51 pm Jun 15 2005

HA, Ha. It was an old rug that was in my older daughters room. When we moved, my wife was gonna through it out. Would have waisted a perfectly good work mat hugh...?

Will do. I'll ride it through some rough stuff and check out the bolts. Then I'll try some flight. I kinda figure the forks will launch the bike more on jumps because of the stiffness of the forks. Of coarse this is all in theory in my mind.

Jon.

T-Roy · Post by **T-Roy** » 09:27 pm Jun 15 2005

Look saweeet. Nice job, and thanks for posting those pics!

Did Emig's have the top clamp in black by any chance? Just curious.

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 11:56 am Jun 16 2005

Nice Job!!!

Remember to check for stiction caused by improper tightening sequence of the forks and axle as well as proper torques. If the lower clamp bolts go much over 12 or 13 ftlbs, they might cause some stiction. Did for me anyway. I set mine at 12 ft lbs and now it's much smoother.
Also new fork seals will cause some sticking until they are broke in.

jafo · Post by **jafo** » 04:37 pm Jun 16 2005

Skipro, could you elaborate on "stiction"? I mean what does it feel like?

As far as torque, I used the KDx manual, can't remember what it was. I'll have to go back over the tighting just to make sure. I'll try the lower clamps at 12 ft. lbs. If kit works for you it'd have to work for this bike also. I need to call emig's to see what he recommends for his clamps also just to cover the bases.

T-Roy, I'll call and see if they carry a black set and get back with you.

Jon.

jafo · Post by **jafo** » 04:45 pm Jun 16 2005

T-Roy, yes they do have black annodized clamps. He also designed and has steering stabalizers fro his clamps also if your looking for that one. I'm going to get one later on. He told me that the guy that annodizes his stuff does a great job and said the black ones look really good. His number is 816-847-1100. His name is Gary Emig. Nice guy, and good with Kawasakis since he was his boy's mechanic for many years. He'e pretty helpful with any questions you might have and beware, he likes to talk when he gets spare time, so call when you have time.

Hell of a nice guy, and very knowledgable.

Jon.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 04:50 pm Jun 16 2005

The KX manual specifies torque settings to be different from right to left..NOT bottom and top. ..so I've been told anyway.

Re: 'He also shimmed up my stem with two thick washers.'

Where are these washers, exactly?

Did you check the level of your bike front to rear to make a determination where the KX forks needed to sit in the clamps to keep the same attitude? Or was that even a concern?

How high ARE the forks in the top clamps?

Is the bike taller than it was before?

Thanks!

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 06:07 pm Jun 16 2005

Stiction feels like something is binding and not letting the forks slide freely. Here's a simple test:
Hold the front brake and push down on the forks, compressing them a few inches, and then let them rise SOLWLY. Mark the spot on the fork tubes with a magic marker where they meet the seals. Now lift up on the forks until the forks are completely extended and lower the bike SLOWLY. Look at the fork tubes and see where your mark is. The difference between these two points is the result of friction. In a perfect world, the forks would rest at the exact same spot for both situaltions.

For me, my forks would compress a couple of inches with me on the bike and if I got off slowly, they would just stay where they were. Severe sticktion. After retorquing the forks and axle, it was much better. After applying the Forkslyk stuff I got off eBay, they are darn near perfect with almost no sticktion.

Sometimes the sticktion is from the axle not ligning up the forks correctly, sometimes from the forks twisted in the triple clamps, sometimes torqued to tight, and sometimes new seals will have some from their grip on the fork tubes. This can all add up to a stiff ride over small, fast bumps like a gravel road or some such.

CC is probably right on the left right fork torque thing. I use the advise provided by my fork tuner at Rach Tech. I feel that if I pay for advise, I better take it. If it turns out to be bad advise, then I learned something. If it's good advise, I feel very smart.

jafo · Post by **jafo** » 09:54 pm Jun 16 2005

Skipro, I had that same problem after I put on the forks. My mistake was when I put the front rim on, I had the brakes side axle nut clamped tight and tried to push the opposite sidr fork in to match the spacing on the brake side fork. It did exactly what your describing. I talked to Emig tonight and he asked how I set up the front wheel and then explained to me how to do it. Very simple. I loosened both fork clamps for the axle, freedup the forks by twisting the steering and pushing down on the forks. That set the forks out where they want to be and the spacing kind of worked itself out. Now they feel great! Good rebound, and very cushy.

CC, the washers were installed on top of the lower clamp between the clamp and lower bearing. It moved the stem and bearing up alittle less than a 1/4". I think he did this because I used his top clamp. It's a different design than the stock one. He did'nt elaborate on exactly why he did this but it worked out. I think it moved the frame neck up and actually helped with the clearance issues between the tank and the upper clamp. I really have'nt analized it real well yet. I can say for sure that it drop the steering stops down to where it does'nt make contact with the stop on the steering neck. But I plan on getting some thick rubber peices and glueing them onto the frame right bellow the gas tank where the fork wants to make contact with the forks. Only reason I want to do this is in case I lay the bike over.

As far as the level of the bike, when I was puting it together it seemed to look like the front end was setting higher than when the stock forks were on but after stting on the bike, it feels levelwise like it always did. Yes it was a concern somewhat, but I'm at the tuning stage. I need to ride the bike first to see what I need. I will quickly feel if I need to drop the front end or vise versa after the first ride around.

The bike does'nt feel any taller than before.

I have exactly 1/4" above the top clamp. That measured from the top of the clamp to the flat top of the cap.

I don't know how your top clamp is but you might want to check out the diameter of the stem hole in the clamp and compair it to you KDX stem where it positions on the stem. This was the one supprise I ran into on my swap that I don't recall anyone else having a problem with. Thats why I bought his top clamp. It fit my KDX stem perfect.

Hope this helps you out.

Jon.

Post by **Indawoods** » 09:59 pm Jun 16 2005

We all just shimmed it Jon!

You go out and get the good stuff!

Post by **Indawoods** » 12:26 am Jun 17 2005

What did the Emig top clamp run ya?

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 12:32 am Jun 17 2005

jafo wrote:I don't know how your top clamp is but you might want to check out the diameter of the stem hole in the clamp and compair it to you KDX stem where it positions on the stem. This was the one supprise I ran into on my swap that I don't recall anyone else having a problem with. Thats why I bought his top clamp. It fit my KDX stem perfect.

Well you OBViously haven't checked out MY gallery then have you ??? Hmmmm ???

BTW "If" your at all interested 'ave a look 'ere...

Fork album
http://kdx.woodsrider.net/modules/gallery/album20

General album
http://kdx.woodsrider.net/modules/gallery/KDXing-along

My top clamp is also an 03 KX250 Emig top clamp and "it" had to be shimmed ?? Don't ask whats different between mine and yours ??

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 12:45 am Jun 17 2005

Oh yours are 97ers, that 'splains it....

jafo · Post by **jafo** » 04:25 pm Jun 17 2005

Indi, the top clamp was $115, then the bars clamps are $90.

CC, They make differnt top clamps..... I think I overheard his helper say that they were using a KX 500 top clamp, but did'nt elaborate on what year for my bike. Mine does not have a bushing in the stem hole, so thats one difference. But that should'nt make any difference on using shims. It was just a CNC'd hole in my clamp. Like I said he did'nt elaborate on exactly why he shimmed it, but he did. Maybe the difference in the thickness of the top clamps.??? OK, I went out and took a long look at the clamps and frame neck. I tried to visualise what it would look like without the shims. The only thing I could come up with was that without the shims, the stim wopuld stick up through the top clamp alittle farther. You would think that as long as you would use the KDX stem on a KDX bike you should'nt have any issues. Other than that I could'nt tell you why this was done. He's set up alot of off road bikes and I just trusted his plan for the swap. I'll have to ask him about it next time I'm down there or get ahold of him. Or you can give him a call if your ready to do your conversion now. His hrs' are like 9 am to 5 pm Mon.-Fri. Phone number is 816-847-1100.

Jon.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 04:45 pm Jun 17 2005

jafo wrote:This was the one supprise I ran into on my swap that I don't recall anyone else having a problem with.

Like Inda said...everyone did/does/will. I had my '99 KX250 clamp bushed like KayDee did. Yeah...mostly, folks have used shim stock. Maybe some have used old gum...don't know.

re: Shimmed it

Another common part of the whole deal. Washers are commonly used on the top of the stem. SkiPro used a spanner nut. I have a number of various sized washers to use as needed.

In a severe case with no spacing at all, the stem will interfere with the bars. Whether you space down the bottom clamp or space up the top clamp, you're effectively doing the same thing.

The further up the top clamp is, the further 'up' the forks will fit, making the front end lower. Also, if you space the top clamp up and keep the forks in the same relative spot you will have more space at the top of the tubes for rebound adjustment access and your fork poppers/bleeders.

IF I had to choose, I'd prefer the spacing be done at the top. I want the bottom bearing seal to be snugged close to the bottom clamp. Sure, the seal will still be fit to the outer race when assembled..but I would prefer no space/place for dirt to sit that is even close to that bearing.

What's your front brake setup? KX or CR (same as KDX)? Probably could tell from your pics..but the separate LOGIN to the GALLERY is SUCH a PITA!!

That's a joke, Inda!

jafo · Post by **jafo** » 05:24 pm Jun 18 2005

CC, the front brake components are all original KDX stuff. I did'nt convert anything over on the front brakes. When I put it all together, it looked fine to me. The brakeline routing worked out fine to me. I just ran it through the two loops that bolt to the upper and lower clamps and ran the line down to the caliper. I rode it today through some pretty nasty stuff, and nothing caught the line. It actually fit pretty well. I'm leaving mine as is.

Yeh, I know what your talking about on the lower bearing. But it's not that hard to drop the front end to clean everything up anyways. I try to keep my bike pretty grime free anyways. Call it boardom or no life but it's something to do.

jafo · Post by **jafo** » 05:33 pm Jun 18 2005

Indi, took the bike out today for the test ride. It's a whole new bike. So much so that I'm going to have to get used to the new feel. I really can't exlpain it any better than to say that the bike as a whole feels more stable. I flew through areas today that normaly caused me trouble before with the old forks. It also helped with jumping. The bike felt more springy hitting jumps, and the landing was much much smoother. The conversion was worth every penny! I wish I would have done this sooner. I like hill climbing and took alot of hills today no one else goes up anymore. They are rutted hills full of jagged rock as well as smooth rock. I found myself wheelying over most of it up hill! That and what I did hit the forks made it feel like it was'nt there. I had to look behind me a few times just to make sure I DID run over it. Screw looking for a KTM! I'm keeping this bike!!!!

Jon.

Post by **Indawoods** » 05:38 pm Jun 18 2005

THAT'S what I'm talking about!

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 07:49 pm Jun 18 2005

Good to hear your ride report jafo!

Question: If you shimed the bottom then the shims went in over the stem and then the bearing was pressed on? I thought the stem was tapered so that the bearing was only a tight fit when it was pressed all the way down to the lower triple clamp like the photo Trev posted. I wonder how the bearing fit is and if you will expeiance headshake.

Also, watch out for the brake line rubbing against anything or flexing outwards during compression of the forks since it isn't clamped off at the bottom. I rode mine that way routed KDX style and it would loop out a bit and seemed like it might snag on something while moving down the trail. Check out my subalbum where I posted several photos of how I secured my brake line.

The shimmed hole for the top clamp is very sano. CC did his that way as well. Makes it much easier if you remove the top clamp and all.

Like you, I've hit some scary stuff with my new forks and what I thought would make me crash, instead made me look back to see if I even hit the object. Not that I still don't crash, just not from front end deflections, hard hits, etc. Enjoy your new set-up!!!!!

CC: Too lazy to log in twice?!! Geeze! it took all of two seconds to do that. Now get your parts together and finish your forks!!! July is coming up quick.

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Finally Done with My Frok Conversion!

Finally Done with My Frok Conversion!