Got some gold valves coming!

Questions and comments about converting to beefier forks..
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Jeb
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Got some gold valves coming!

Post by Jeb »

Won 'em off ebay - brand new (probably been sitting on someone's shelf for a while), $40 including shipping!! One of those deals where I recognized the part number for a different bike being the same for my YZ forks . . .

anyone revalved with gold valves themselves? Sounds straightforward, I've had the basevalves out a couple of times so doesn't seem like it would be a big deal. I'm excited because the kit includes shim stack suggestions based on riders weight, terrain, etc.

Do the kits include suggestions about the shim configurations for the cartridge internals, midvalve float and such?
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Post by m0rie »

Sweet deal Jeb!
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Post by thebleakness »

I've got Gold Valves in my KDX right now. I can't say I notice a difference because they were already installed. You scored though, those sucka's can be pricey!
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Post by KDXer »

FTR There are 2 types. One type is for MX and the other more suited to off-road.
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Re: Got some gold valves coming!

Post by IdahoCharley »

>|<>QBB<
Jeb wrote:Won 'em off ebay - brand new (probably been sitting on someone's shelf for a while), $40 including shipping!! One of those deals where I recognized the part number for a different bike being the same for my YZ forks . . .

anyone revalved with gold valves themselves? Sounds straightforward, I've had the basevalves out a couple of times so doesn't seem like it would be a big deal. I'm excited because the kit includes shim stack suggestions based on riders weight, terrain, etc.

Do the kits include suggestions about the shim configurations for the cartridge internals, midvalve float and such?
Great deal you got there. Straight forward valving from some charts provided with the gold valves. Does not include changes to cartridge internals, MV or MV float based upon my two experiences with Gold Valves.

You select the shim stacks to try on the base valve based upon a short description of suggestioned stacks for differing terrain. (Don't remember rider's weight charts) Two stage stacks configurations were pretty good IMO although I ended up going on the softer side of the shim stack configuartions on both the 1st and 2nd stages. It will make sense once you have the chart in hand - I hope it does anyway!!! :mrgreen:
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Post by Jeb »

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KDXer wrote:FTR There are 2 types. One type is for MX and the other more suited to off-road.
Are you referring to a second type being called a "Type 2"? If you are, the Type 2s are recommended for supercross . . . so I'll have the right ones if that's the case.
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Re: Got some gold valves coming!

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>|<>QBB< . . . Does not include changes to cartridge internals, MV or MV float based upon my two experiences with Gold Valves . . .

Rats! I did a lot of poking around about suspension tuning on several sites while I was on short-term disability with the knee surgery and learned enough to realize that I'm slightly above the level of clueless when it comes to what's in that cartridge. The mid-valves apparently have limitations, especially the breed of bike from which my USDs come ('98-'02 YZs). I do believe I'll start with the GV + shim changes initially, maybe that'll do the trick, at least for a while. :wink:
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Post by Jeb »

I got the cartridges apart last night . . .

Here's what I got starting with the nut at the end of the rod (rebound):

20 X 1.6
11 X .1
11 X .1
11 X .1
14 X .1
16 X .1
18 X .1
20 X .1
12 X .1
27 X .1
27 X .1
27 X .1
27 X .1
PISTON
27 X .15
27 X .15
25 X .1
25 X .1
13 X .25
13 X .25
25 X .4
COLLAR, SPRING, CUP

8mm ID on the rebound side, 11+mm on the other. I state 11+ because the collar is right about 11mm OD and all of these shims slide over the collar. They are held to the piston by the spring.

Image

These stacks look quite a bit different than those I've been reading about recently. Seems like there's really not much to the midvalve stack and a bunch on the rebound. Comments?

How do I measure the float? I get the impression that it's the distance between the two larger shims (you can actually see the gap in the picture) but I've read more than one explanation. My primitive understanding of it is that, generally, the midvalve stack gets softer with a wider float.

Your comments are appreciated, anything from "try this" to "leave it alone"
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Post by IdahoCharley »

>|QBB<[/url]
Jeb wrote:I got the cartridges apart last night . . .

Here's what I got starting with the nut at the end of the rod (rebound):

20 X 1.6
11 X .1
11 X .1
11 X .1
14 X .1
16 X .1
18 X .1
20 X .1
12 X .1
27 X .1
27 X .1
27 X .1
27 X .1
PISTON
27 X .15
27 X .15
25 X .1
25 X .1
13 X .25
13 X .25
25 X .4
COLLAR, SPRING, CUP

8mm ID on the rebound side, 11+mm on the other. I state 11+ because the collar is right about 11mm OD and all of these shims slide over the collar. They are held to the piston by the spring.

Image

These stacks look quite a bit different than those I've been reading about recently. Seems like there's really not much to the midvalve stack and a bunch on the rebound. Comments?

How do I measure the float? I get the impression that it's the distance between the two larger shims (you can actually see the gap in the picture) but I've read more than one explanation. My primitive understanding of it is that, generally, the midvalve stack gets softer with a wider float.

Your comments are appreciated, anything from "try this" to "leave it alone"
You measure the float by compressing the spring and sliding in the largest feeler guage that will fit the gap between the piston and first shim. You measure the area between the face of the piston and the piston - spring length and number of shims can lead to a spring coil bind/limiting the effective float value. So you need to measure.

Large float values will allow more oil to flow though the piston before activation of the shims. Thus 'high velocity' movements in the fork will essentially compress the spring on the midvalve and bend the shims quickly as the oil flows: Low fork velocity hits will only lift the shims off the piston and allow oil to flow without bending the midvalve shims.

Close up the float and you have quicker activation of the midvalve shims: Increase the float gives you a slower activation (more fork movement for a given velocity of the fork) prior to shim activation.

Some of the aftermarket suspension shops have different spring tensions which is a variable: of course the shim stacks are variable: the float is a variable: you have reverse taper stacks you can try: and bleeder shims to try. You have now entered into an area which can drive you nuts - so keep good notes!!! :supz:
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Post by Jeb »

Well . . . I went ahead and installed everything Race Tech recommended. In addition to the Gold Valves and BV shimming changes, inside the cylinder I replaced the midvalve with the check valve and installed the seal plate (which effectively decommissions the cylinder valve).

Some argue that the check valve and the seal plate disable some of the functionality/tuneability of the active circuits in these types of forks but after reading quite a bit about it I believe those things tend to apply to an mx'er or a very aggressive 'scrambler.

Anyway, ended up with a dual-stage stack in the base valve with shims selected based on being an old fat guy who rides through the woods, 125mm oil level (ATF), and clickers in the middle of the range.

Now, I'm not supposed to be riding until Feb/Mar time-frame but I decided to ride it in the woods next to the house just for a few minutes and in a very controlled manner :wink: . And while I haven't exactly given it a good run - in fact it was a rather mild run - there's is a VERY noticeable difference in the ride. As much of an improvement the USDs are over the OEM forks they were certainly harsher on the small bumps. 'Best as I can tell . . . not anymore. For example, the path I was on crosses some exposed tree roots that used to jar me a bit but today they were not nearly as perceptible. I passed over them a couple of times and watched the front brake cable dancing up and down but felt little in my bars.

I can't wait to REALLY get on the trail and put these suckers to the test.
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Post by IdahoCharley »

Thanks for sharing your experience with the GV with us. The two times I installed GV for people they essentially thought the gold valves were the Holy Grail of all things suspension. I weigh so much more than either of the two people I installed the vlaves for I could not make an realistic evaluation of the fork action.

I remember installing a check valve set-up - replacing the mid-valves but not any "seal plate": Where does the seal plate go? :?
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Post by Jeb »

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IdahoCharley wrote:Thanks for sharing your experience with the GV with us. The two times I installed GV for people they essentially thought the gold valves were the Holy Grail of all things suspension. I weigh so much more than either of the two people I installed the vlaves for I could not make an realistic evaluation of the fork action.

I remember installing a check valve set-up - replacing the mid-valves but not any "seal plate": Where does the seal plate go? :?
The "seal plate" may be something unique to these forks ('98 - '02 YZs and '98-'99 CRs I think) but basically it replaces the piece to which the top-out spring is attached in the photo below. You have to remove the rebound/piston/midvalve holder and then remove the top out spring, pry off the piece to be replaced and snap the top-out spring to the seal plate. The only real difference between with the seal plate is there's an o-ring on the outside circumference (sealing it to the cylinder) and one on the inner circumference (sealing against the rod). Because the cylinder valve (tucked inside of the cap) has a labrynth of seals/shims and permits limited flow, the seal plate takes that out of the equation. If basically sets right below the cap at the top of the cylinder (it is stationary along with the top-out spring and cylinder valve. Clear as mud?

Image
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