Showa 49mm, from rm250

Questions and comments about converting to beefier forks..

Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby ohgood » 12:51 pm Mar 30 2018

Rm250 USD (49mm showa)

This fork is an easy swap after I pressed a kdx stem out, and glued it into the showa triple tree with loctite 680.

Then the problems started.

It's damped for MX. That means it's harsh as hell for woods riding.

I pulled every picture and shim stack recommendation I could find from the internet, and dug in. None of them matched what I found. Mine is stock, and had seven shims total. Every other shim stack I have found was between 15-20 shims, and the recommendations ended up with a total of between 7-9.

At that point I gave up and pushed it into the corner.

So sick of trying to get decent suspension working on this bike. Just sick of it.
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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby Jason » 01:27 pm Mar 30 2018

Does it not have a midvalve, too?

Sorry that you are frustrated with the joy of MX forks on a KDX.
Thank you, Julien D for all your hard work!

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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby doakley » 02:14 pm Mar 30 2018

Take them to a suspension shop that is familiar with h the swap. Worth the money.
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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby ohgood » 02:28 pm Mar 30 2018

Jason wrote:Does it not have a midvalve, too?

Sorry that you are frustrated with the joy of MX forks on a KDX.


it's stock showa 49mm for either 99 or 2000 rm 250 or rmx250, I have no way of knowing, since every post/link over u found quotes different shim lists, oil volumes, spring rates, etc

picture attached, mine has 7 shims, all the others had 15-20.
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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby ohgood » 02:30 pm Mar 30 2018

doakley wrote:Take them to a suspension shop that is familiar with h the swap. Worth the money.



have you called about suspension work lately? guesstimates of $150/hr with a two hour minimum? no, the bike isn't worth that much.
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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby ohgood » 02:32 pm Mar 30 2018

this is what every other shim stack looks like:
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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby doakley » 07:16 pm Mar 30 2018

ohgood wrote:
doakley wrote:Take them to a suspension shop that is familiar with h the swap. Worth the money.



have you called about suspension work lately? guesstimates of $150/hr with a two hour minimum? no, the bike isn't worth that much.


Got my 2001 KX 250 forks revalved, springs matched to my weight and rebuilt (new seals etc) for $272. Seemed worth it to me. If we based everything we do to these bikes on what they are worth we would just park them in a corner.
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Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby SS109 » 10:43 pm Mar 30 2018

Send them to Donnie at ZR1. A revalve is $125 plus parts and spring (if needed). He does all my suspension work and is an honest guy who won't try to upsell you crap you don't need. http://zr1suspension.com/services_dirt.php
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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby Jason » 02:33 am Mar 31 2018

Was the nut staked on or had someone already taken it apart? Do you know what I mean? Sorry if that sounds odd.

Sorry that you are not close by. Pizza and beer can get a lot of labor out of me. :partyman: :supz: :lol:
Thank you, Julien D for all your hard work!

PLEASE! Do not "dip" PWK Keihin carbs in Berryman's to clean them! It will damage the internal o-ring (jet block gasket).
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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby ohgood » 05:17 am Mar 31 2018

Jason wrote:Was the nut staked on or had someone already taken it apart? Do you know what I mean? Sorry if that sounds odd.

Sorry that you are not close by. Pizza and beer can get a lot of labor out of me. :partyman: :supz: :lol:



Yes, it was staked. I pulled both valve assemblies to make sure. See the pictures attached above please. Mine = blue shop towels. Everything else I've seen online shows about 2-3 times more shims, pictured in the white shop towels.
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Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby ohgood » 05:27 am Mar 31 2018

SS109 wrote:Send them to Donnie at ZR1. A revalve is $125 plus parts and spring (if needed). He does all my suspension work and is an honest guy who won't try to upsell you crap you don't need. http://zr1suspension.com/services_dirt.php


I've had 20 people suggest suspension shops. NO ONE does anything to their own bikes anymore, and NO ONE knows how to. When I mention the shim stacks are missing half the shims others show in photos online, everyone just says "yaaa, my guy will fix that" without any kind of a logical response. No thinking, no consideration that THE SHIMS ARE MISSING lol

Then give any suspension shop a call and they all say "we're pretty backed up, might be a week" and I hear youtube tutorials playing in the background. hell I can screw it up without the wasted time and shipping expense, right here at home !

so frustrating trying to find usable information for this crap.
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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby Jason » 05:52 am Mar 31 2018

Are you 100% certain of which forks you own?

Measure and post what you have as far as shim thickness and diameter.

Any chance the shims are stuck together with oil?

Is this your first time to take one apart?
Thank you, Julien D for all your hard work!

PLEASE! Do not "dip" PWK Keihin carbs in Berryman's to clean them! It will damage the internal o-ring (jet block gasket).
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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby Jason » 06:11 am Mar 31 2018

Can you post some pics of the forks? Thanks.
Thank you, Julien D for all your hard work!

PLEASE! Do not "dip" PWK Keihin carbs in Berryman's to clean them! It will damage the internal o-ring (jet block gasket).
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Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby SS109 » 08:32 am Mar 31 2018

ohgood wrote:I've had 20 people suggest suspension shops. NO ONE does anything to their own bikes anymore, and NO ONE knows how to. When I mention the shim stacks are missing half the shims others show in photos online, everyone just says "yaaa, my guy will fix that" without any kind of a logical response. No thinking, no consideration that THE SHIMS ARE MISSING lol

Then give any suspension shop a call and they all say "we're pretty backed up, might be a week" and I hear youtube tutorials playing in the background. hell I can screw it up without the wasted time and shipping expense, right here at home !

so frustrating trying to find usable information for this crap.

I do everything to my bikes that I can other rebuilding/revalving forks and shocks. Sorry I don't understand your issue about people not noticing the missing shims. Most people don't mess with it so how would they know? As for my suspension guy I normally have my stuff back in two days. Donnie doesn't screw around when it comes to his work. Some think he's rather rough to deal with as he doesn't chit chat. He's got work to do and he gets it done. He's no youtube tuner and has been doing suspension since 2000. However, do as you wish. You aren't having any luck so I suggested someone I personally trust that I know can get it done quickly and done right.
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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby ohgood » 08:09 pm Mar 31 2018

Jason wrote:Are you 100% certain of which forks you own?

Measure and post what you have as far as shim thickness and diameter.

Any chance the shims are stuck together with oil?

Is this your first time to take one apart?



forks are back on the bike, I hoped to get a good ride in today. didn't happen.

the shims aren't stick together.

this is my first time to disassemble these tubes, yes.

here is a picture of the forks and base stack. I haven't had much lock with finding shim stacks online, but all I've seen so far has 15-20 shims.
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Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby ohgood » 08:13 pm Mar 31 2018

SS109 wrote:
ohgood wrote:I've had 20 people suggest suspension shops. NO ONE does anything to their own bikes anymore, and NO ONE knows how to. When I mention the shim stacks are missing half the shims others show in photos online, everyone just says "yaaa, my guy will fix that" without any kind of a logical response. No thinking, no consideration that THE SHIMS ARE MISSING lol

Then give any suspension shop a call and they all say "we're pretty backed up, might be a week" and I hear youtube tutorials playing in the background. hell I can screw it up without the wasted time and shipping expense, right here at home !

so frustrating trying to find usable information for this crap.

I do everything to my bikes that I can other rebuilding/revalving forks and shocks. Sorry I don't understand your issue about people not noticing the missing shims. Most people don't mess with it so how would they know? As for my suspension guy I normally have my stuff back in two days. Donnie doesn't screw around when it comes to his work. Some think he's rather rough to deal with as he doesn't chit chat. He's got work to do and he gets it done. He's no youtube tuner and has been doing suspension since 2000. However, do as you wish. You aren't having any luck so I suggested someone I personally trust that I know can get it done quickly and done right.



I appreciate you're trying to help, but I hoped this would be a learning experience I could apply to other bikes in the future instead of just swiping a card and going racing.

every day another bike doodad is released and it's the greatest thing ever, for a price. I'm trying to improve the kdx as much as I can and learn the how/why along the way. I guess suspension is where the home hacking ends
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Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby SS109 » 09:31 pm Mar 31 2018

ohgood wrote:I appreciate you're trying to help, but I hoped this would be a learning experience I could apply to other bikes in the future instead of just swiping a card and going racing.

every day another bike doodad is released and it's the greatest thing ever, for a price. I'm trying to improve the kdx as much as I can and learn the how/why along the way. I guess suspension is where the home hacking ends

I hear ya. I tried the suspension thing but learned I just wasn't up to the task. Good luck brother!
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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby Jason » 09:50 pm Mar 31 2018

Next time, measure the thickness and diameter.

Thicker = more damping
more shims = more damping
smaller OD = more damping

You can, in some combination, install thinner ones, remove shims, install larger OD ones.

The base valve is going to do most of the damping, but there is a midvalve in there, too.

Have you tried adjusting the compression adjuster on the forks?

Can you post a few pictures of the forks?
Thank you, Julien D for all your hard work!

PLEASE! Do not "dip" PWK Keihin carbs in Berryman's to clean them! It will damage the internal o-ring (jet block gasket).
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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby ohgood » 10:19 am Apr 01 2018

Jason wrote:Next time, measure the thickness and diameter.

Thicker = more damping
more shims = more damping
smaller OD = more damping

You can, in some combination, install thinner ones, remove shims, install larger OD ones.

The base valve is going to do most of the damping, but there is a midvalve in there, too.

Have you tried adjusting the compression adjuster on the forks?

Can you post a few pictures of the forks?


yes, I've gone from 350ml of oil to 200, to see if it would help with no change. I've run the compression from full on to nothing, and while there was change, it's still too stiff. rebound seems fine, I can slow it down enough to make a good difference, but compression is harsh. on hill climbs all it does is squat the back and bounce everywhere. terrible rife yesterday, the stock kdx forks would have been exponentially better.

which part of the forks would you like to see ?
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Re: Showa 49mm, from rm250

Postby Jason » 12:13 pm Apr 01 2018

the top of the caps
Thank you, Julien D for all your hard work!

PLEASE! Do not "dip" PWK Keihin carbs in Berryman's to clean them! It will damage the internal o-ring (jet block gasket).
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