outer bearing races swap Hey great site New here

Questions and comments about converting to beefier forks..

outer bearing races swap Hey great site New here

Postby kawboy2006 » 01:01 pm Dec 27 2005

I just bought a 06 kdx 200 and am going to do this swap. However does anyone know if the outer kdx and kx bearing races can be removed from the frame? This would be great if they could be, So far I've read about all this knurling and shimming and dont like the idea,(got to be a bolt on solution perhaps not just asking.) if I could tap out the outer races from the frame none of this would need to be done. I have at my disposal a 03 kx 125 with blown motor and haven't even started yet, as there is no heat in garage. Please if anyone has info on these later year swaps I'd greatly appriciate it. thank and graet forum :cool: maybe I can get lucky does someone need my stock front end?
2006 kdx200,
User avatar
kawboy2006
Member
 
Posts: 62
Joined: 10:55 pm Dec 26 2005
Location: pittsburgh pa
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby Indawoods » 01:36 pm Dec 27 2005

Mr. Heater works great in the garage... 'bout $40 + Propane. :grin:

The bottom fits perfect so there is no problem there... same bearing and races... the top is a different story. I don't know if it is the design of the tube or what but I really didn't want to get into tearing out the races and seeing if a KX race would fit. Besides, I think the KDX tube is shorter... not for sure though....

Here's a pic of the top....

Image
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****

"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
User avatar
Indawoods
Creator and Founder
Creator and Founder
 
Posts: 9951
Joined: 09:59 am Jun 12 2003
Location: Midwest
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 19 times

Postby KDX220PHIL » 03:31 pm Dec 27 2005

hmmm. I thought the KDX tube was longer....maybe not?

My Kdx front end is apart so I can check the race on thursday, it most likely can be removed since there is a part number on buykawasaki. I dont have a KX Race, but if looks as though even the bearing would not fit in the tube let alone the outer race.

I think the bolt on solution may lie with the KX500 TT's, although this may be for 94-98 year KX front ends.
I think GS might have some info on this?
User avatar
KDX220PHIL
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
 
Posts: 419
Joined: 08:31 am May 19 2005
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby Indawoods » 04:03 pm Dec 27 2005

Well... now that we are on this... I might just see if my spares race can be replaced with a KX one. Sure seems like the ticket if the tube length is the same or close....

It would save all that machine work and make for a better setup in the longrun.
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****

"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
User avatar
Indawoods
Creator and Founder
Creator and Founder
 
Posts: 9951
Joined: 09:59 am Jun 12 2003
Location: Midwest
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 19 times

Postby KDX220PHIL » 04:06 pm Dec 27 2005

Hurry UP!!!! Before i start pumpin' out stems for nothin'. :grin:

Sure would be nice if it works, judging by the pic above it doesnt look like the bearing race will fit , although there may be options for making it fit.
User avatar
KDX220PHIL
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
 
Posts: 419
Joined: 08:31 am May 19 2005
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby Indawoods » 04:21 pm Dec 27 2005

From what I see on buykawsaki.com is that the steering tube is flared on both ends of the KX frame to accommodate the larger races and bearings and only flared on the bottom of the KDX frame for the same. This it appears is where we are running into the problem.....

It don't look good.... :?
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****

"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
User avatar
Indawoods
Creator and Founder
Creator and Founder
 
Posts: 9951
Joined: 09:59 am Jun 12 2003
Location: Midwest
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 19 times

Postby Indawoods » 04:32 pm Dec 27 2005

Here's what I mean....

Image
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****

"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
User avatar
Indawoods
Creator and Founder
Creator and Founder
 
Posts: 9951
Joined: 09:59 am Jun 12 2003
Location: Midwest
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 19 times

Postby kawboy2006 » 07:43 pm Dec 27 2005

It appears my 06 has the same flare on bottom but not on top! let me know if that truly is a problem. and why the #$%% kawasaki would not upgrade this is beyond comprehension. one little upgrade in frame design and all our woes solved. $%#!
2006 kdx200,
User avatar
kawboy2006
Member
 
Posts: 62
Joined: 10:55 pm Dec 26 2005
Location: pittsburgh pa
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby kawboy2006 » 07:45 pm Dec 27 2005

and where'd you get those diagrams i wanna closer look
2006 kdx200,
User avatar
kawboy2006
Member
 
Posts: 62
Joined: 10:55 pm Dec 26 2005
Location: pittsburgh pa
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby Indawoods » 08:00 pm Dec 27 2005

95 through current KDX frames are the same along with everything else.

http://www.buykawasaki.com has diagrams of all their bikes on there for easy parts identification and part numbers.
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****

"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
User avatar
Indawoods
Creator and Founder
Creator and Founder
 
Posts: 9951
Joined: 09:59 am Jun 12 2003
Location: Midwest
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 19 times

Postby kawboy2006 » 08:02 pm Dec 27 2005

Thanks :cool:
2006 kdx200,
User avatar
kawboy2006
Member
 
Posts: 62
Joined: 10:55 pm Dec 26 2005
Location: pittsburgh pa
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby kawboy2006 » 04:24 pm Dec 28 2005

Bet I can find a company to supply the rollar bearing needed with the smaller outside diameter of the kdx race with the larger inside diameter of the kx shaft there are many companies that sell any size tapered rollor bearings all I need now is a micrometer
if any one has the measurements already please let me know as this will speed up our search :supz:
2006 kdx200,
User avatar
kawboy2006
Member
 
Posts: 62
Joined: 10:55 pm Dec 26 2005
Location: pittsburgh pa
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby KDX220PHIL » 05:07 pm Dec 28 2005

I'll post the measurements tomor. but I think the bearings would end up being very small. If I remember correctly I think the Kx stem is about 1/8" larger in diameter than the KDX stem at the upper bearing. Also, If the KDX tube is longer than the KX tube ( I think it may be) it may result in the steering stem cap nut not reaching the stem thread (lower one). I'll check this out as well.

For clarity the nut I am refering to is the 25mm hook nut not the 22mm steering stem nut.
User avatar
KDX220PHIL
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
 
Posts: 419
Joined: 08:31 am May 19 2005
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby canyncarvr » 06:14 pm Dec 28 2005

I can't point you to where...but I'm pretty sure this has all been hashed out before.

For starters. Sure, the outside race is easily removed.

Do NOT mix-n-match outers and inners...even if you think they look the same. They call it a matched 'set' for a reason.

Not all setups take the same assembly methods..but at the worst, it's still no big deal. As long as you get KX stuff that you KNOW goes together (all the same year is helpful), the stem swap isn't a big deal.

You should likely replace the bearings anyway. Well...an '06 should be OK...but not for very long!!!! If you have not already greased your bike..the bottom stem bearing is already on its way to being junk.

Re: shimming

Get a bushing made for the top KX clamp to fit the KDX stem. No shimming required. My machine shop bill for installing the stem and bushing the clamp was about $70.

Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis

bike profile: !clicky!
User avatar
canyncarvr
Gold Member
Gold Member
 
Posts: 6941
Images: 26
Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Postby Domenic_200 » 08:29 pm Dec 28 2005

I pressed a 03 kdx stem into the 02 kx lower triple..it took about six tons to do it..Plenty tight! I believe the later model kdx stems don't require knurling or shims. I used the kx bearing adjuster nut as a spacer below the upper triple also. I to was very concerned about having to shim or knurl the lower clamp, but it was very easy and the forks work great.

Domenic
User avatar
Domenic_200
Member
 
Posts: 33
Joined: 06:08 pm Dec 28 2005
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby kawboy2006 » 10:17 pm Dec 28 2005

Found a local one going to take measurements and see if they have them or can get em post later with results
2006 kdx200,
User avatar
kawboy2006
Member
 
Posts: 62
Joined: 10:55 pm Dec 26 2005
Location: pittsburgh pa
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby Lutz » 12:30 am Dec 30 2005

No need for a micrometer: All critical dimensions of a bearing are coded into their part numbers. These dimensions include the inner and outer races (i.e. a complete bearing). The bearings used in our bikes use the JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) coding system.

The KDX top bearing is a 32005JR RS. This number codes out to be 47mm outside diameter, for a 25mm shaft, and 15mm wide. The JR RS basically refers to a one side sealed roller bearing.

The KDX bottom bearing, same as KX top and bottom bearings, is 32006JR RS. This bearing is 55mm outside, for a 30mm shaft, and 17.25mm wide.

This amounts to 0.315 inches difference outside, 0.197 inches difference in shaft size, and 0.089 inches difference in bearing width. That's over half an inch of material that would have to be taken out of rollers and races...that's just too much material to make it work.

Honestly, you won't be able to get a roller bearing that will allow you use the stock KX stem in the stock KDX head tube. But if you want to try anyway, good luck. :wink:

You'll have much better luck pressing stems, building bushings, etc. etc.
Keep It Simple Stupid
User avatar
Lutz
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
 
Posts: 185
Joined: 09:27 pm Nov 15 2004
Location: North Shore of Lake Superior
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby Indawoods » 12:34 am Dec 30 2005

That's great info!
Thanks... I need to brush up on my engineering standards. (as if I knew any.. :? )
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****

"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
User avatar
Indawoods
Creator and Founder
Creator and Founder
 
Posts: 9951
Joined: 09:59 am Jun 12 2003
Location: Midwest
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 19 times

Postby KDX220PHIL » 10:07 am Dec 30 2005

Good info Lutz. I didn't make it home yestersay so I could not measure the bearings and thanks to your info looks like we do not need to.

One question is bothering me... why do some KDx's need knurling and others don't? which KDX's need a larger stem and what size?
User avatar
KDX220PHIL
Supporting Member I
Supporting Member I
 
Posts: 419
Joined: 08:31 am May 19 2005
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby canyncarvr » 01:44 pm Dec 30 2005

The inside/outside measurement do not take the taper º into account. If you're replacing the set, you don't care.

But..this thread started with an 'outer race' question.

The fact that IT is indeed easily removable..and that tapered roller bearings should be replaced AS a 'set' is clear...right?

kawboy?

lutz wrote:Honestly, you won't be able to get a roller bearing that will allow you use the stock KX stem in the stock KDX head tube. But if you want to try anyway, good luck.

You'll have much better luck pressing stems, building bushings, etc. etc.


Yup.

re: 'why...'

Because some stems are smaller and/or some clamp holes are bigger.

:shock:

Why ask why? Mixing different models and years of different stuff, wouldn't you expect some things to be not the same? I don't matter what you get, it WILL (or CAN) work.

The direct answer, of course, is:

canyncarvr wrote:I don't know.


You can quote me on that.

Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis

bike profile: !clicky!
User avatar
canyncarvr
Gold Member
Gold Member
 
Posts: 6941
Images: 26
Joined: 01:07 pm Nov 05 2004
Location: The Mythical State of Jefferson
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Next

Return to Fork Conversion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest