CC's ride report!

[Indawoods]

OK... time to get serious about this stiction issue and put it to rest.

How about this. Coat the lowers with machinists dye... take it for a ride, look where it is worn off.... turn the forks.... repeat. Of course this will require the proper tightening sequence everytime and have brand new seals and bushings...but eventually you would get to a point of least resistance... right?

[Indawoods]

Really now... I think stiction is going to be a fact of life.

Sure there are little things you can do to reduce it. It doesn't bother me much at all except when it's way bad like when tightening the forks up incorrectly. I think you have to do that once to appreciate how little you actually have.

Changing oil frequently, keeping forks clean, correct spring rate all play a role. I guess you could pay $800 for a coat job to reduce it a little but is it worth it to you? Not me....

My internals are like new so there is very little wear on them and when I'm out riding... stiction is the last thing on my mind as long as they are working well.... And mine are working well right now in stock form with minor adjustments.

Just my .02

[skipro3]

You are right Inda. The stiction is not a big thing dispite the discussion. It's just the icing on the cake if someone stumbles on a solution. I'm thinking it is an internal resistance and not the tube/seal fit that is providing the resistance anyway. The internals can get the titainium coat treatment as well, but for our level of riding, it wouldn't make us any faster or safer, so why bother.

[KDXGarage]

Take the forks off, dump out the oil, remove the seals and reinstall. PRESTO! No more stiction. I am thinking it IS the seal/tube drag that is causing the problem. I say no need to worry any further about it.

[canyncarvr]

This is me... ..not worrying about it.



I'll let y'all know when I get it fixed, though.

..well, maybe.

[skipro3]

How many restless nights has Carvr spent sitting up until the wee hours of the morning, in boxers and tanktop T shirt, clove cig in hand, apple martini glass sweating to the humidity in the air while he sits out on the front porch, in the dark, all alone? He sits for hours, contemplating the problem at hand, just waiting until we, his always faithful listeners, wake up and log on to the only site to take these sort of things seriously enough to bother to even attempt the level of conversation worthy of the topic. With a bottle of Pepto to chase the martini, he sighs as the realization dawns in his mind, just as the sun is also dawning on the new day, that, alas, these cads too are not up to the mental challenge to solve the stiction delema. An unwilling realization that perhaps they don't even find the topic interesting any more and are bored with it enough to just let the problem fade as an issue to solve, reluctantly is formed. With no where else to turn, he returns to his workshop to spend what ever time and engery is necessary to explain the phenomina for..............The Stiction Forks..

Stay tuned for previews of next weeks soap opera; As the KDX turns, where spooge decends on the CC workshop. Will Carver get out of the way in time to avoid being splattered? Will a simple inquirey of parts availablity ruin his credit rating? And just who is the mysterious young woman on the quad he chases though the forest, never quite able to catch up to and see her face? We'll just have to wait and see.

[KDXer]

Riveting and powerful.
The Hollywood Reporter.

A 'must' read.
New York Review.

I await in anticipation for the next chapter in "Stiction, Fiction ?".........

[canyncarvr]

Alas! I must needs findeth my sword to falleth upon! ...eth.

[canyncarvr]

...I missed part of page three.

Inda..re: 'that was pretty much what I was getting at with my preload question.'

Understood. Hence the 4146 springs, the hours or research and query etc. ...to answer your question.


Ski..re: 'But I thought it was the preload that held the bike up to its proper sag height.'

That in conjunction with the proper spring. A way too 'small' spring will take more preload than it should to get the correct sag. A way too 'big' spring won't allow you any sag at all...with no preload. Small/big in either rate or length.


Jason..re: 'which set of Kouba links do you have..'

I have none Kouba. I have Devol pull rods..set to +1.5mm.


Jason..re: Forks and/or a shock could have stiction with no spring installed.

Yes. And with 'too much' spring installed, either too high a rate or too much preload the situation is going to be worse.


Inda..re:'With less preload then the stiction would be broke and the forks could be lowered in the trees giving more adjustment....right?'

Less preload will decrease the amount of force required to get the forks moving..stiction or no. IF stiction is a problem, the greater extent to which you can lessen other factors the better. I don't see a relationship between where the forks are mounted in the trees (or the desert for that matter ;) ) and them having more adjustment. Regardless of what your adjustment level/range is the forks should be set in the forks for a level ride and/or to effect handling problems or to the rider's preference (I want it to be 'quicker'! ..raise the forks)


Jason...re: 'we are discussing a characteristic of forks that does not lend itself to be fixed cheaply, and probably can be lived with.'

Yep! Therefore it must be resolved!

Seriously, I'm a firm believer in things being either right (maybe difficult to obtain and a hassle in the process) or not (easier to just leave it alone). I've ridden with quite a number of different preload settings and know what I prefer. If I cannot get there with a 4147 spring..then I'll change the spring. Simple enough. The result will be a better performing fork. Other riders have been on my bike and commented on how they liked the suspension. I don't really care about that as long as I like it, too.

I'm not the only one (out standing in the field?) that recognizes it is what I'm saying. Lots of times it's the small stuff that matters. Sometimes the outcome exceeds the sum of the parts.

[KDXGarage]

Hey, if it makes you happy, then go for it.

[Indawoods]

Inda..re:'With less preload then the stiction would be broke and the forks could be lowered in the trees giving more adjustment....right?'

Less preload will decrease the amount of force required to get the forks moving..stiction or no. IF stiction is a problem, the greater extent to which you can lessen other factors the better. I don't see a relationship between where the forks are mounted in the trees (or the desert for that matter ;) ) and them having more adjustment. Regardless of what your adjustment level/range is the forks should be set in the forks for a level ride and/or to effect handling problems or to the rider's preference (I want it to be 'quicker'! ..raise the forks)

What I meant by that was...... If the forks set slightly lower in the stroke... then the forks could logically be dropped a bit in the trees.

The angle should be the same as long as the total height remains constant.

One advantage I can see by doing this would be more contact (control) with the ground when going over rough terrain or a high torque situation.

[skipro3]

FWIW; I've been compairing the forks on my KDX and my KX. My KX forks are much more responsive to pressure applied. I don't need to even hold the front brake, just push on the foot peg while standing next to the bike will initiate travel in the forks.
Also, I notice that when the bike is running, standing next to it and reving the motor, the forks rise and fall through the sag with the engine RPM's building and dropping off. I happened to notice it in the bars as I stood there reving the motor, checking out the used Turbine Core II I just rebuilt for the bike. It was a bit strange to feel the bike's bars lift some then drop as rpms changed.

[Indawoods]

That's interesting.... Ski, could you contact the guy you bought the bike off of and ask him how he changed out the forks? You know... his procedure?

[KDXer]

Sounds like you got some swapping and testing to do....

[m0rie]

Yeah, i'd find another 03 clamp kit and kdx stem so you can swap the forks between your KX and KDX and see if the difference in response travels with the forks.

-Maurice

[skipro3]

I talked to my seller. The forks weren't completely replaced just the bent stuff. The upper/outer part of the fork is the origonal. So that means someone at the shop disassembled them, replaced the damaged parts, then put them back together. It was done at a shop in Chico California because the seller was a student at the college there at the time. I'll pull out the phone book and check. Also, I'll be taking them apart to check what I have as well. Look for updates as I rebuild the KX into a woods bike in my blog. Nice tool, that blog Inda. Thanks!!!

[canyncarvr]

What's the deal with your KX year, your KX fork year..what mixes and matches?

Same fork size? Not, right? ..would take you about ten minutes to swap the forks if the same size.

How writing up a blow-by-blow of what's up when you take them apart?

Stack setup, spring rate etc etc.

From your description..they act a whole lot different from the KX forks we've been talking about.

[skipro3]

I'm going to do the write up of the transition to woods bike in my blog, so check there. It will be detailed. With photos too. Everyone can watch as I try to turn a KX250 into a KDX instead of the other way around where guys try to turn a KX into a moto-x machine.

I've got '96 forks on the KDX so I'll see if the '02 forks will fit the triple tree and give them a ride. They are different. Stiction isn't nearly as pronounced.

[canyncarvr]

'96=46mm
'02=48mm

Get out the BIG screwdriver and spread them clamps!

What's a couple mm amongst friends.....;)

[Indawoods]

I think he should go get them bored!